A visualisation maybe even Jr. can understand.

[simple man]

Bush's budget was around 3.1 trillion his last year compared to Obama's 3.5 next year, the outrage was definitely lacking from you then though.

If someone doesn't find a way to plug this boat we will all drown. GWB blew a fortune on his doubts in Iraq. He still thinks he was right and doesn't care about the spending because he is rich enough to weather the storm. If Obama doesn't come thru on some of his promises, once again American politics will have proved , our way doesn't work.

[CoeburnCane]

If you cut spending then you increase spendable revenue without increasing taxes, that is simple math.

NOT if you're still in the red as far as the budget it concerned--like you said, this is about the budget. There's no such thing as "spendable revenue" when you cut spending and you're still in the red, that saved revenue has to go towards the deficit if you want to get out of debt.

Did you forget that obama quadrupled the deficit in that 5 months you say nothing can happen in. But let's not forget he will cut the deficit in half by 2013. Now that's not the deficit that was in existnce when he made the statement but the deficit he was going to create. Which in actuallity was an increase in the deficit of double, double that is now 4 years from now it could be 10x.

It's a common practice to pin this stuff on Obama in 5 months when Bush screwed it up over 8 years. If we want to talk numbers, any number that you judge Obama on compared to Bush, you have to readjust those Bush numbers to include the numbers for the Iraq War that Bush didn't include in his budgets on PURPOSE to make his budget not look so bad. Obama includes Iraq War funds. When you think about it, his increase from Bush's non-Iraq War inclusive 3.1 to an Iraq War inclusive 3.5 isn't bad at all.

I guess if you say quadruple/double/10x/etc enough, someone will get just scared enough that Obama's just like Bush and we'll try to impeach him or something.

I though you were an accounting person, you should know as well as anyone you CAN NOT spend your way out of a recession or borrow your way out of debt.

Where did I say that? I said cuts in spending and increases in taxes are definitely going to be an inevitibility in order to get out of debt. Government finances & personal finances are no different in that fashion--if you're in debt, spending has to go down and money coming in (either via paychecks or taxes) has to go up--and that extra money isn't "spendable revenue", it's money going towards paying down the debt. The question we all need to have answered is two-fold with Obama in this case since we know what he has to do--where will spending be cut, and on whom will taxes be raised. You're gonna make people mad no matter what, but we can't go on like this.

[TheBeast]

When did I ever say that Bush did no wrong. If the lefties can get on and post something different against Bush every few days while in office then why can't someone do the same with the golden child or if you preffer god, as he has been reffered to.

In a way Obama is standing above the country, above the world. He's sort of GOD. He's going to bring all different sides together."

- Newsweek editor Evan Thomas

Many Obama defenders claim that the numbers do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish.


-President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.

-President Bush began a string of expensive finan*cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.

-President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.

-President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.

-President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in*creased this spending by 20 percent.

-President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

-President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama?s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

[CoeburnCane]

Care to post a link to those bullets you posted just now...the *'s in between words kinda is a dead giveaway as a copy/paste.

Also...

-President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.

-President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in*creased this spending by 20 percent.

-President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

The only problem I have with any of those 3 things is that the education spending goes up quite a bit...but I'm never going to argue against education spending at all because that's an investment that you do indeed get return on.

The other stuff (especially the public debt deal) is pure right-wing economist speculation based off of their own models of what they THINK MIGHT happen if Obama's policies pass. It's also probably a worst-case scenario model meant to make Obama look bad and scare the pants off of everyone (which, lets face it, the GOP is known to do).

If the lefties can get on and post something different against Bush every few days while in office then why can't someone do the same with the golden child or if you preffer god, as he has been reffered to.

Two things:

1) He's not God, there's only one of those, and we all need to listen to him quite a bit more often. I think we can definitely agree on that much.

2) You can do it--this is America after all, just expect folks to say something about it when it doesn't make sense. Just like you did when you were defending Bush. You complained about people posting something everyday against Bush on here in the past, and I can't recall you saying THIS--but a lot of people condemned those who had something to say about Bush's shortcomings as anti-American for doing so. If you start a grease fire in the kitchen just to call attention to it, then make sure you know how to handle the heat as it grows out of control.

You're still my pal and a friend, and you know I'd do anything for ya...but I just don't think we agree politically...nothing wrong w/that. Makes for fun convos from time to time for sure.

[CoeburnCane]

While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish.

I'm quoting this seperately to make sure this point gets across...I know Bush used emergency supplementals to fund the war efforts...but why?

Simple--because emergency supplementals don't count against the budget numbers which he got hammered for, but are still spent at his command. Had he included those numbers in his budget, things would have looked MUCH worse vis-a-vis the budget itself. Also, these emergency supplementals don't have to be run through Congress for approval, meaning he circumvents a whole branch of government in order to do what he wants with money he didn't have the ability to spend due to the deficit anyways. He could have cut spending in his budget to allow for the Iraq War dollars, but he didn't want to make any of his friends mad by cutting spending on things that they wanted in the budget.

You're right, the spending didn't "simply vanish", but it was hidden, just like people at Enron/Arthur-Andersen/Tyco/etc used creative accounting practices to move money to their advantage. Nothing really different when you compare the Bush budgetary practices relating to the Iraq War, and the hiding of money by the companies that brought about the Sarbanes/Oxley legislation governing the accounting practices of publicly held & traded companies to protect from stockholder fraud. Both situations are dubious & lacked integrity, but they did them anyways out of greed & the motivation to cover their butts.

[TheBeast]

One link coming up. I didn't mean to pass it off as mine but I figured anyone that anyone could easily tell it was a c&p.

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures The Foundry


Agree on the education spending, we are so far behind the rest of the world in education it ain't even funny. And this SOL test bull**** has got to go. I know the no child left behind thing is a Bush deal but it is pure horse****, if you don't pass get your ass in gear when your repeating the same grade next year.



Of course, the stock market reached never before seen heights, unemployment was at all time lows and we were rocking along just fine under the Bush administration. That is up until 2006 when the democrats took control of Congress. But why let the facts get in the way of a good repetitive dose of propaganda for the masses?

[Counts]

One link coming up. I didn't mean to pass it off as mine but I figured anyone that anyone could easily tell it was a c&p.

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures The Foundry


Agree on the education spending, we are so far behind the rest of the world in education it ain't even funny. And this SOL test bull**** has got to go. I know the no child left behind thing is a Bush deal but it is pure horse****, if you don't pass get your ass in gear when your repeating the same grade next year.



Of course, the stock market reached never before seen heights, unemployment was at all time lows and we were rocking along just fine under the Bush administration. That is up until 2006 when the democrats took control of Congress. But why let the facts get in the way of a good repetitive dose of propaganda for the masses?

I think it is way to soon to blame/give credit to Obama for much of anything.

I do NOT like the way he is playing with the jobs saved or created numbers in that the numbers good or bad will be pure fiction that being said the Bush/Clinton accounting games are equaly as bad

And wost of all is the accounting games Congress use for SS no one is talking about it now but when it crashes it is going to make what we are going through now seem like small potatos.


I WILL agree that after 9/11 the country bounced back nicly and 06 was around the time things started to change wheather the Dems in congress are to blame for that is a matter of debate.


That being said Obama for the most part has not done anything he did not say he was planning on doing and I have talked to very few people that voteed for him that would change that vote if they could.

[TheBeast]

I think it is way to soon to blame/give credit to Obama for much of anything.

I do NOT like the way he is playing with the jobs saved or created numbers in that the numbers good or bad will be pure fiction that being said the Bush/Clinton accounting games are equaly as bad

And wost of all is the accounting games Congress use for SS no one is talking about it now but when it crashes it is going to make what we are going through now seem like small potatos.


I WILL agree that after 9/11 the country bounced back nicly and 06 was around the time things started to change wheather the Dems in congress are to blame for that is a matter of debate.

That being said Obama for the most part has not done anything he did not say he was planning on doing and I have talked to very few people that voteed for him that would change that vote if they could.

Hey nobody asked for your opinion, this is between me and Cane. We don't have time for none of that rational stuff.

[R13]

People were making threads on Bush after he had been in office for 7/8 years, while Obama hasn't even been in there for 7 months. Bush doubled our debt with his wars and those great tax cuts for the most part. Obama has inherited a complete and total mess that Dubya left, with the economy and a very expensive nonsense war. Seems liek you and others on the right have got it in your head that the all Obama supporters thought he'd come in and fix everything in a snap, when that's not the case at all with 99 percent of us. You won't find anyone saying anything like that on here, looks like some more major ASSuming on your behalf.

[TheBeast]

That's a real good point, Bush doubled the deficit in 8 years and obama has quadrupled it in 5 months, thanks for making it for me again.

And the other great point you made for me, nobody had any probelm with Bush for the first 6 years till the democrats took control of congress and then all of a sudden allthe changes they made were his fault.

And btw you and everyone else did say and believed with all your feeble hearts that obama was the savior and saving grace and was gonna come in and fix everything in a snap. Why because he said he was going to.